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The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Second Opinion

Mike Bracken's picture

Beautifully Boring

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Screenshot

HIGH Climbing to the top of a mountain, seeing a location far off in the distance, and being able to travel to it.

LOW The endless series of repetitive filler quests that do nothing but pad the game's running time.

WTF Why is it okay that the main quest is so boring that people brag about not completing it?

There's no denying that Skyrim, Bethesda's newest entry in its venerable Elder Scrolls series, is a beautiful game. Rather than return to the Tolkien-esque high fantasy setting of their last title, Oblivion, the designers have opted instead to move north, crafting a snowy and mountainous region filled blustering winds and awe-inspiring vistas. Skyrim is an amazing setting—one wherein players will frequently stop to savor the scenery and might even shiver a bit as a full-scale blizzard engulfs them as they climb up to "The Throat of the World." It's something of a monument to the art of world creation in video games—Skyrim isn't just a setting, it's an immersive locale that feels and looks real—and if the rest of the game were even half as well done as Skyrim's setting, it would be in the running for the title of greatest game of all time.

Unfortunately, the beauty of Skyrim is ultimately only skin-deep. The game looks great [when it's not chugging along at five frames per second on the PlayStation 3 (PS3)], but players who move beyond the pretty exterior will find a gameplay experience littered with bugs, wonky and unsatisfying combat, and thousands of quests that are more repetitive busywork than fun.

Perhaps the biggest complaint I can level against Skyrim is that Bethesda seems far more interested in upgrading the graphics of each Elder Scrolls game than they do the actual play experience. Why is the combat as clunky and shallow in Skyrim as it was in Morrowind over a decade ago? Why are the third person animations still so ugly? Why is the main questline still an anticlimactic afterthought? I don't know the answers, but I can safely say that the problems of Morrowind still exist in Skyrim. The world may be larger and more elaborately crafted, but when the core gameplay is so frustratingly boring, who cares?

As someone who loved Oblivion and bought an Xbox solely so I could play Morrowind, I'm not a critic with an axe to grind against this franchise. It's just hard to shake the feeling that Bethesda is all too willing to ignore the serious issues by slapping a pretty new coat of paint on the game and calling it a day. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" maxim is never a good one, but it's a particularly poor design philosophy when things actually are, in fact, broken. It's hard to completely blame Bethesda, though—gamers and critics alike have long been willing to forgive the flaws in favor of the ambition. Skyrim is ambitious—it promises a never-ending series of quests that could keep players combing the mountains and countryside literally forever. The question is, if those quests aren't varied and compelling, why would anyone want to bother with them?

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Screenshot

As Richard mentioned in his main review, narrative has never been Bethesda's strong suit. Instead, the company generally excels at creating huge open worlds that feel completely explorable, and there's something to be said for a game that allows players to stand on a mountain peak and see a spot miles away that they can actually walk to. It's even more impressive that while walking to that spot, the player will invariably find a dozen other things to explore—from encampments to caves to small farms. It feels like discovering a real world, but that sense of excitement gained from exploration is quickly dulled when one realizes that each uncovered locale is generally just another cave filled with bandits/vampires/zombies.

Most of Skyrim's extraneous quests task the player with going to one of these isolated locations, clearing it out, finding an item or killing a mini-boss, and returning for a reward. As quest structures go, this is pretty much standard in the RPG genre—they call them fetch quests for a reason—but Skyrim doesn't even pretend to give the majority of them any sort of narrative context. They're one-offs with no real effect on anything in the rest of the game. This is by design, of course, because Skyrim wants to be so open that players can do anything and completely avoid the main quest if they so choose, but this feels a lot like a double-edged sword. By making the game so "open" to a player's whims, they've dulled any sort of narrative thrust.

This is perfectly exemplified by the main quest which finds the player tasked with stopping the return of dragons threatening the Skyrim countryside. Fighting dragons sounds incredibly epic, and a main quest that will require the player to learn the "dragon language" and fight many of the fire-and-ice breathing beasts should be exciting. The problem is, it's not.

In order to make the game a sort of "choose your own adventure" experience, the main questline feels like an afterthought. While critics like Tom Chick might complain about the faux urgency at every turn in Uncharted 3, the narrative meandering that makes the main quest of Skyrim completely inconsequential isn't any better. It's entirely possible to forget what's happening in the main quest after the first few hours, so why should I do these things if even the developers think they're unimportant?

Some folks won't care—it's become something of a weird badge of honor to talk about playing an Elder Scrolls game for hundreds of hours without ever touching the main storyline. I understand—I did it in Morrowind. I suspect the issue for me is that I already did it in Morrowind, so why hasn't Bethesda stepped up and said, "Wow, if people brag about not actually doing the main questline in the game—the thing we clearly assume is the most narratively important thing in the title, what can we do to make that content more compelling?" We talk about game stories and compare games to films and art and books, but no one seems to mind that the story in Skyrim is a barely-formed thing so unimportant that we laugh about ignoring it.

If players can get past that, there are myriad other issues to contend with, as Richard noted at the start of his writeup. The game's UI is a horribly designed mishmash of menus and sub-menus that isn't even remotely intuitive to navigate. When a game allows the player to have dozens of quests active at once, it would be really nice to have an MMO-esque quest log with some details as to where the player is at in said quest. The best we get is a little list with completed objectives marked off. It works, for the most part, but it could be so much better.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Screenshot

Then there are the bugs. So far, every platform has reported some kind of issue running Skyrim, but PS3 users have suffered the most. I opted for the PS3 version as it was supposedly the prettiest of the console releases, and I wasn't concerned about PC mods down the line (I tend to play these games to the end, then never play them again). The PS3 version has a horrible issue with slowdown. When save file sizes grow, the system bogs down and runs like a slideshow. Bethesda released a patch which sort of fixed the problem, but not really. After a save file passes the 5000KB size (which is really easy to reach), issues will start to appear. The only solution is to shut the system off every hour or so and reload—which isn't really a solution at all. Even after the patch, my copy of the game still became a stuttering mess after fast-traveling to locations if I'd played for an hour.

Meanwhile, the game crashes regularly. I had a stretch where it would lock up once every ten minutes over the course of a few hours, and countless other random crashes for no discernible reason at all. The 360 and PC versions seem to crash too (the 360 also has a texture issue that hasn't been resolved at the time of this writing) but the PS3 release seems to be the least stable by far. Buyer beware.

While the game's issues are certainly troubling (some more than others), there are some things that Skyrim deserves praise for. As mentioned earlier, the environments are honestly beautiful. The world of Skyrim is an amazing place and those who like to explore should find that itch scratched quite handily. The dungeons, while still lacking in variety when it comes to objectives, are at least diverse in structure. These aren't the cookie cutter domains of Oblivion. There are more voice actors, as well. Finally, not every NPC sounds exactly like the one who just spoke up the street. Jermey Soule's soundtrack is as amazing as ever. The new leveling system that Richard admires can still be manipulated, but it's more engaging than the one in Oblivion.

Skyrim is breathtaking at times, which makes it all the more frustrating that the core game components—the real meat and potatoes of the experience—are so bland. It's like sitting down to a gourmet meal that the chef never seasoned; the presentation is spectacular, but the food has no flavor. We don't buy meals because they look pretty—that's a bonus. The same thing holds true for games. Lovely graphics are great, but a beautiful game with broken and boring game mechanics isn't enjoyable.

Each player's appreciation of Skyrim is ultimately subjective, of course, and I want to be clear that this is not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination—after all, the world design alone is head and shoulders above most of the other open world games on the market. That said, players who want a wide open world and a compelling story to go along with it may feel slighted. Gamers who value length over variety will find much to love in Skyrim's never-ending series of lightweight, nonessential quests to complete, but is that really enough from a game of this magnitude? I'd much rather play a four hour game that keeps me highly engaged for its entire length than a 100 hour one that has long, dull, stretches of repetition.

Unfortunately, for me, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is the latter. While the idea of being able to play it "forever" sounds exciting, the execution isn't good enough to actually keep me another minute past the 56 hours I've already spent with it. Rating: 6.5 out of 10.

Disclosures: This game was obtained via rental and reviewed on the PS3. Approximately 56 hours of play was devoted to single-player modes (completed 1 time).

Parents: According to the ESRB, this game contains blood and gore, intense violence, sexual themes, use of alcohol. Skyrim isn't really a game for kids, and it's doubtful that most of the youngsters will want to play it—but if they do, be advised that the game does feature lots of booze to drink (including a drinking contest), violence (including decapitations), and some bloody mayhem. It can also be a bit scary, so parents with kids younger than teenaged will most likely want to steer their children in a different direction.

Category Tags
Platform(s): Xbox 360   PS3   PC  
Developer(s): Bethesda  
Publisher: Bethesda  
Series: The Elder Scrolls  
Genre(s): Role-Playing   Open World  
ESRB Rating: Mature (17+)  
Articles: Game Reviews  

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Bethesda either lacks the

Bethesda either lacks the people who know how to create intrigue and a compelling story, think they do, or simply don't care. I found Oblivion and Fallout 3 hollow and Skyrim sounds like more of the same. Too bad. I'll give it a rent when the bugs are ironed out.

Re: Bracken review

Herein lies the major point of contention for Skyrim and many, many other RPGs: What defines "busy work"? I think it's something we all get a sense of when we're bored by a game but we never fully outline it for ourselves.

Fetch quests, in general, can be considered busy work. But then so many things in Skyrim are fetch quests and they come in varying shapes and sizes.

For me, repeating the same part of the game over and over to "grind" is busy work. This is a key problem I had with Demon's Souls, but to Chi and Brad that is obviously not busy work.

The question is: What makes doing the same fundamental thing repeatedly "fresh" for someone who enjoys it? In Skyrim, I enjoy the *context* of the tasks, the whimsical narrative setups and the access to new loot and areas... so to me, the arbitrary and repetitive framework of the task itself disappears, whereas to you, it was obviously magnified. (I would argue, however, that Fallout 3 masked the framework much better due to its more involved settings and more varied dungeons.)

On the other hand, I imagine that replaying a sequence or grinding can be "fresh" for someone if they find new approaches to playing through it or if their mastery of that particular section after a certain point becomes fulfilling. I don't feel that way, but again, I imagine many people do.

These aren't the only two examples of what we can call "busy work," of course, but I'm interested to read how other people felt about doing the "work" of games like Elder Scrolls and if for them the repetitive artifice was well masked or annoyingly apparent.

Dungeon crawler

I view the game as a dungeon crawler. And in that case, it's a very well done game. It seems like people just aren't going to be happy, but no other developer is even remotely making games like the Elder Scrolls series. If you don't like Bethesdas games, that's fine. Two Worlds and Risen got closer, but were still missing a lot of elements.

I feel like people are expecting too much. Oh well, their loss.

I guess I'll post this here

I guess I'll post this here too. Since Mike has pretty much stolen Richard's shine. LOL. Took me a second to realize this wasn't the official review.

Interesting to see two diverse opinions on the same subject. I respect both. Personally, the game is wonderful. So many things to do, and ways to get into trouble. My personal favorite involves seeing how many guards I can put to the sword before being put down like a rabid dog. It's a (morbidly) wonderful feeling to slaughter most of the denizens in particular a town. I was also pleasantly surprised to see guards warn me for dropping a weapon in town. Of course, I didn't pick it back up........Where's the fun in that.

Personally, I consider those radiant a.i. quests to be equivalent to the side missions shown in Red Dead Redemption; though they occur during normal quest lines too. Some things are awesome. Like people you have stolen from sending thugs after you. There are also a lot of interesting quest lines (particularly the Dark Brotherhood) among the standard fair.

I also like the subtle changes made to the game itself. Two-handed combat. Classlessness. Removal of tedious aspects like repairing armor/weapons.

I don't know. The game is just awesome. IMHO.

Matthew K wrote:Herein

Matthew K wrote:

Herein lies the major point of contention for Skyrim and many, many other RPGs: What defines "busy work"? I think it's something we all get a sense of when we're bored by a game but we never fully outline it for ourselves. [...] In Skyrim, I enjoy the *context* of the tasks, the whimsical narrative setups and the access to new loot and areas... [...] I'm interested to read how other people felt about doing the "work" of games like Elder Scrolls and if for them the repetitive artifice was well masked or annoyingly apparent.

Interesting. I have yet to play Skyrim, but I found especially the context in Oblivion severely lacking. The story was just not *good*. At least the plot didn't engage me at any level. I felt the same when playing World of Warcraft, where I found myself running around the countryside to slay monsters of various shapes and sizes. At no point in WoW or Oblivion I had the feeling that there was anything at stake. In contrast: in Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic I had the feeling if I don´t go out there and save the galaxy, everything is lost. Dark Souls gave me the feeling the ancient evil had already won and if I don't do anything it's not gonna get better. There was never any sense of urgency in any Bethesda game I ever played. I just ran around and did... 'stuff'. It kept me busy but not more. When you create the context yourself by filling out the blanks, it's all to your credit and not that of the game ;-)

To make matters worse: the combat system in Bethesda games is just not good. Melee combat in TES is incredibly boring. Compare that to e.g. Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. DMoMaM had incredibly well done first person melee combat. The physics engine allowed for various interaction with the game world and I loved to kick people into spikes. Or compare it to the more recent Souls-games for excellent third person melee combat. Almost every weapon has a different attack animation, making certain weapons better for certain situations. You are stuck in a narrow corridor? Take a spear. You are in a wide open space with many weaker enemies? Pick a large sword that allows to hit multiple foes with each swing. There is NO reason why TES couldn't have a better melee combat system.

Quote:

For me, repeating the same part of the game over and over to "grind" is busy work. This is a key problem I had with Demon's Souls, but to Chi and Brad that is obviously not busy work.

I played through both Demon's and Dark Souls and heard of people 'having' to grind. I haven't and it still puzzles me. I don't see any reason to grind in either Souls game, since stats are not so important and there is not much use of having more than two or three +15 weapons in the first playthrough. In Demon's Souls I hardly upgraded weapons at all.

Skyrim

I'm loving Skyrim and think it should be Game of the Year 2011. However if I had to level criticism at it, I'd point to character interaction. Our travel buddies are little more than sword wielding pack mules. They have no history to share, we can't learn anything about their backstory. In an ideal world I'd like Bethesda to create their style of game, with Bioware type character interactions.

Oz wrote: In an ideal world

Oz wrote:

In an ideal world I'd like Bethesda to create their style of game, with Bioware type character interactions.

add Demon's Souls melee combat to the mix and I fully agree :)

Matthew K

Great post by Matthew K above, he really nails it. Let's face it, at the end of the day we're all doing extremely repetetive tasks in our game of choice - it's our level of engagement that makes it bearable or not.

That engagement level will be different for different people.

Skyrim - lots of boring fetch quests.
Dark Souls - 'learn' the level, persevere until finished.
Minecraft - build houses and giant penises in a sandbox environment.

All valid criticisms, but the only one of those three I really detest is Minecraft.

Skyrim does have poor combat, dull periods/quests etc, but what makes it bearable for me is the world-building aspect. I love seeing what they've done, and approach the game in a what's-around-the-next-corner type way. The combat and quests vary that, and if they're not brilliant, they're serviceable.

Other peoples' tolerance for that kind of thing may be limited, but mine is very high, and I'm enjoying the game. It's pretty good, and in my opinion, is the best RPG of the year (decent competition in the Witcher and Two Worlds II).

Still, all valid points in the reviews here. It could be better; I know they didn't have an unlimited time for development, but melee combat should be at least as good as Mount & Blade's by this stage, the racism/rebellion angle was messed up by not taking the player's race into account etc.

But it's still a magnificent beast.

I played the game two weeks

I played the game two weeks straight almost non-stop, completely engaged in the game purely for its visuals and enviroment. I was able to play it for longer than I expected purely because the game felt so epic.

I stopped playing it precisely for the reasons this review points out. I became sick of entering cave after cave. I couldn't be bothered retrieving another item or weapon for some isolated deity or some NPC. The quests I did prefer were the ones that had some unexpected moments (like the one with the drinking game) and others that are similar. Other than that, most quests were boring as hell.

As for the bugs, I've playing the PS3 version and they haven't been too bothersome. Being bored of the game itself made me look past bugs. The funniest one I saw was when I fought a dragon that flew in reverse. The music would kick in but I wouldn't be able to hit the damn thing.

Well. I've said many times

Well. I've said many times that I liked this game a lot, but after the third quest-ruining bug I encountered things are starting to change.

So in the end I have to agree more with your score that with Richard's. Not for the reasons you state necessarily, but because the awful bugs. It seems that the biggest challenge in this game is not slaying big ferocious fire-breathing dragons but to put up and walkarround all of the glitches.

This touches upon what I

This touches upon what I wrote about in another thread. That Skyrim is the spiritual opposite of Uncharted, where the former is all about emergent gameplay while the latter is all about specific design.

I sank 100+ hours into Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout become bored with entering cave after similar cave, bored of talking to samey wooden characters, bored of the lack of narrative. I didn't expect anything different from Skyrim, so I have avoided this title so far. As I said, 15 hours of designed entertainment, is highly preferable to 100+ of wandering around trying to find a thrill.

Bethesda are the best at delivering huge fantasy worlds, but in doing so, they spread themselves too thin with the result that everything feels shallow.

And by limiting my ability

And by limiting my ability to even remotely go off the beaten path, or forcing me done some linear story arch; I believe games like Uncharted are shallow.

But to each his own.

Meant to say "down" not

Meant to say "down" not "done." LOL.

I agree... somewhat

I was thinking about my game of the year, and it's been a difficult toss-up between this and The Witcher 2.

I fundametally agree with some of the criticism here. The openness of the world detracts from the urgency of the quests, which is a little immersion-breaking: "I have to save the world! But first I'm gonna wander around for a few weeks and loot a few dozen dungeons..."

I also agree that the characterization is a little weak. When I played The Witcher 2, I was fully engaged in the story and invested in the characters. The events unfolding seemed urgent and relevant. In Skyrim, they've felt a little thinner since your character is for most purposes generic, and the events not quite so urgent for the aforementioned reason. And finally, unlike in The Witcher 2, I feel like I'm mostly just along for the ride in Skyrim's quests; my decisions have little or no impact on the events around me or the ultimate direction of the story.

But I think this simply highlights some inherent weaknesses to this type of game. Because there are many other things this game does that few other games can really approach. For one, the play style is immensely customizable. I'm playing as a stealthy assassin/archer, sniping out enemies from afar usually before I'm seen. The sense of freedom, and the sheer wonder of exploring such a stunning and complex world is very exciting. I love the fact that I can be wandering around and stumble upon what seems like a simple errand or just find a book lying around, and quickly become swept up in an hours-long adventure.

I love the gameplay itself; I think the combat is outstanding, and the perks are highly rewarding. I like the way persuasion has been integrated into the dialogue, getting rid of the silly minigame from Oblivion. I like the way the skill trees have been simplified to make leveling up feel more organic, which has gotten rid of the stat-crunching we used to do in these games (you know, level up x minor skills to get the bonuses for y major skills...)

I'm playing the PC version, and it's been perfectly stable for me (I was experiencing crashes at first, but traced it to some overclocking settings). I strongly disagree about the menus – I find the interface elegant and easy to use, a significant improvement over the previous games. And a few mods have made it quite stunning to look at.

It's still a tough call for me whether I like this game better than The Witcher 2, but regardless I think it's a mighty impressive achievement. In the future, perhaps Bethesda could make certain quests automatically fail/expire after a certain time, and get the player more committed to following through a certain quest line. I tend to find the most enjoyment from quest lines when I start them and stick with them, rather than wander off midway. That, and a little more beef in the characters, and they've got a masterpiece.

p.s. If there's one thing that gets me a "WTF", it's the addition of a pickpocket skill. It used to be integrated with sneak, and now it's practically useless since pickpocketing isn't a particularly valuable skill to invest a lot of time in.

Combat...

Lots of fair critiques here mike, though i tend to side on Richard's (none of this stuff really matters to me) side. Yet, you are the little devil speaking truth in my other ear.

One thing, however: it is patently false that combat has not improved since "chopsticks" Morrowind. They've put the dice under the hood etc, and combat is definitely more satisfying than Oblivion. Is it great yet? Probably not. But i'm not sure how you can argue it's the same.

Skyrim

I couldn't agree more. It really feels like the quests are rather dull with not much sense of accomplishment. I can't believe I'm saying it, but I think Oblivion was better in many ways (primarily the quests). I do like Skyrim a great deal, however I think they could have done a much better job in the story department. Heck I'd be happy with just a thrown in cinematic ending at this point. Overall, it's a fun game if you go off and do things you'd like doing, but the quests get pretty boring.

Skyrim, some people just get it

Skyrim is a game that enables players to be taken to another place, a very special place indeed. As did the great fantasy role playing games of days gone by, games that stand tall at the very top of the computer game fiction mountain, Final Fantasy VII, Ocarina of Time, Mass Effect 2 to name a few. These games offer a world that gives the player the chance to truly immerse themselves into. The moment you get the reigns to walk around and soak everything up, it hits you, you quietly whisper to yourself, "Wow" This is why I play video games.

There is of course a catch, it is a request from the developers of such creativity and imagination that you the player buy into their world. You need to be a believer, you need to not only play the game but 'feel' the game, to feel part of it's world and every now and again let your imagination do some of the work.

I respect the review and can agree to some extent with it's major theme, but to focus on such points instead of the huge acheivements that have been made is simply a 'glass half empty' rather than half full point of view.

When a game offers me the chance to feel that I am living a life in another world, a beaufitfully realised and magical world so interwined and thought through, how can I dare pick holes in the 'mechanics' of the game's structure. To do this, is missing the point. You do not need to spend your time in this game repeating what I agree are often repetitive tasks, you can make the game as diverse as you wish.

Games like this are what seperates consoles from other platforms of entertainment. No where else other than a games console can I do a 360 degree turn and feel like I am breathing in the air, feel like this is a world where I live, feel like I can walk in any direction I choose and something special could happen. Skyrim realises this experience as much as any game yet released.

Of course there is a main narrative, but to me such plots are what hold RPG's etc together. They are what make a game an 'epic'. It doesn't even matter f it is not the best story in the world, as long as the main plot gives a true purpose to the world and that you as the player believe and buy into it. I think Skyrim has succeeded with this hands down, the sheer anticipation of mythical dragons flying around for a genuine reason offers a great sense of purpose. Yes many players brag that they haven't nowhere near finished or even started the main quest, but deep down this gives them joy as they know they have so much to look forward to.

The only other game that has given me so much pleasure just belonging in it's world is GTA IV. The whole point of Skyrim is you can choose to play the game how you want. If you find the many 'fetch' quests that dull to the extent that they spoil the enjoyment, don't bother with them and stick with the main narrative. I am sure that there are thousands of people who are extremely glad that they have the chance to stay in Skrim's world for so long no matter how trivial the purpose may be.

If you argue that the main quest is not 'epic' enough for you, that the plot is weak, then I am affraid this game is not for you as you need to let yourself go and let your imagine do some of the work. Such players are better suited for the on rails variety such as Uncharted. I am a big fan of Uncharted but for me it is like comparing chalk and cheese, fortunately I like both. It is easy for someone else to go and copy UC3, but to make another Skyrim would be something truly special. Why don't we sit back and enjoy the one we already have.

Stephen Edwards

I agree with all the

I agree with all the criticism above, but would add one more thing. One of many enjoyable things in RPGs is upgrading your gear as you level. It is quite easy to get the best gear in the game relatively early on. If you had the incentive of finding great gear at the end of those repetitiveness dungeons, you would at least have an incentive to do them.

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