New Review Posted: Forza Motorsport

Daniel Weissenberger · 07-13-2005, 10:47 PM

Mike Doolittle reviews Forza Motorsport, and has this to say:

"Forza Motorsport, there's something I have to get off my chest. Do the developers behind these racing sims really think it's fun to make players race working-class street cars? I mean, not that the option to do so isn't appreciated. It's certainly nice to be able to take a Civic or Talon, tweak it, and drive it 100 miles per hour. What's not so nice, though, is that in seemingly every single one of these types of games, racing these boring cars is required before "unlocking" the cars that really make the game worth playing. I don't know about anyone else, but when I play racing games, I want to race cars that I'll probably never own—Porches, Ferraris, Vipers, Corvettes, and all the other kinds of cars that only people who think Gucci shoes are cheap can drive. I had hoped that Forza would let me jump into the game with at least some reasonably beefy cars, but I hoped in vain and was forced to spend many boring hours trudging along with average cars before getting to the cool ones. Had I not had to do that, I certainly would have enjoyed Forza more than I did."

He did enjoy it, rhough, as can be gathered from his comments here.

Kin Korn Karn · 07-14-2005, 11:08 AM

Sweet! You get to fight a bone dragon in Forza!? (last picture)

Good point about having to race ho-hum-pick-a-car-out-from-the-parking-lot-in-front-of-the-supermarket cars in order to race the big boys.

I don't know if I have enjoyed a racing game since Super Monaco GP on the Genesis. Maybe that is why?

ferrarimanf355 · 07-14-2005, 12:00 PM

Good review all around. About the slow cars, yeah, you do have a point there: why bother with the Civic when there are Ferraris and Porsches waiting to be unlocked? Then again, that's why there's the arcade mode...

Mike Doolittle · 07-14-2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kin Korn Karn

Sweet! You get to fight a bone dragon in Forza!? (last picture)

Yeah I saw that too! I think there's a secret track where if you drive your car off the road, you go into a warp pipe and fight the bone dragon.

Boy · 07-16-2005, 12:22 AM

Honestly, I really like racing the "boring cars". Seriously! Like, in every Gran Turismo, as soon as I get access to my first few ubercars I quit playing. I dunno, there's just something endearing about pumping up some used '75 Supra. Of course it still looks (and for the most part, drives) like a piece of crap, but it's MY piece of crap!

EnduroGamer · 07-16-2005, 01:19 AM

Driving the everyman's cars in the beginning of the game is necessary because it represents the difficulty curve. It's the same reason why you don't fight Gandalf at the start of a Zelda game.

As with all games, racing games get progressively more challenging as they go on. One of the main ways of upping the challenge (in addition to tougher AI) is by increasing the speed and agility of the cars.

You start with the Civic, progress to the WRX or Audi TT and ultimately wind up in a Ferrari. Sure, driving the Civic might not be as fun, but surely you can stomach the 30 minutes or so it takes to unlock better cars and upgrade that one to a better performing vehicle.

It's not as if Gran Turismo, Enthusia, or Forza really makes you stay in a slow car for more than an hour tops. Well, unless of course you're just not very good at it. And in that case you're not ready for the faster cars.

LordFarid · 07-16-2005, 06:26 AM

I think driving everymans cars in Gran Turismo is fantastic. First of all, it allows you to race with cars that you see in the street, second of all, these races exist in real life as well (golf GTI-Cup, clio cup, etc) and last but not least, they are often a lot of fun. I enjoy myself a lot with the early races of Gran Turismo, and I love buying an average car like you find on the street and turning it into a little monster.

Another example is Project Gotham Racing. So many fast and furious cars in that game, but for multiplayer, i still love the mini cooper races more than any other.

ferrarimanf355 · 07-16-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFarid

I think driving everymans cars in Gran Turismo is fantastic. First of all, it allows you to race with cars that you see in the street, second of all, these races exist in real life as well (golf GTI-Cup, clio cup, etc) and last but not least, they are often a lot of fun. I enjoy myself a lot with the early races of Gran Turismo, and I love buying an average car like you find on the street and turning it into a little monster.

Another example is Project Gotham Racing. So many fast and furious cars in that game, but for multiplayer, i still love the mini cooper races more than any other.

I take it that you're not thrilled at Project Gotham Racing 3's imposed 170 MPH minimum speed limit on the cars...

David Stone · 07-16-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnduroGamer

It's the same reason why you don't fight Gandalf at the start of a Zelda game.

I've had that problem when playing the Lord of the Hyrule games...

*runs for cover*

LordFarid · 07-16-2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrarimanf355

I take it that you're not thrilled at Project Gotham Racing 3's imposed 170 MPH minimum speed limit on the cars...

I'm not too thrilled at another Project Gotham Racing game at all to be honest. I thought the online play ruled, but I hate the single player of that game. I was hoping that Forza is sort of the online Gran Turismo, but i'm not sure since the reviews seem a bit mixed and many are saying the single player is not that special.

Is there anyone who absolutly loves the gran turismo series that has played this game? How does it compare for the GT fan that doesn't care about arcade racers?

EnduroGamer · 07-18-2005, 01:26 PM

I was a pretty big Gran Turismo fan, and Forza's single player is not Gran Turismo.

The biggest problem I have with Forza's single player is that the game is completely devoid of personality. And while I realize that GT is pretty cold and by-the-numbers, Forza was practically nothing but a list of events that you progressed through. There was seldom any sense of attachment or anything. You were just racing and checking races off lists. I found it to be extremely formulaic and well, it kept reminding me of game design from 5 years ago. It actually reminded me a lot of the way you progressed through Test Drive Le Mans. Don't get me wrong, TDLM on the Dreamcast was one of the best racing games made IMO, but it's a dated approach to game design.

Between the sub-par graphics (GT4 should not look better in analog than Forza does at prog scan), and lifeless progression mechanics, I found myself very disappointed.

Yes, the multiplayer is very good, but this game did little for me, despite being one of my most anticipated games for 2005. It just, well, I can't explain it, but it was a let-down. As for PGR3, I'm a PGR whore and I'm very excited about it (and I actually love both its online and single player elements) and it will be the reason why I pre-order an Xbox 360.

As for Forza, while still in the living room and getting occasional play, it won't see the fraction of play time that I normally devote to games of its type.

***Now, just to make a point though. Forza was their first attempt at a simulation style racing game (and a pretty damn good first effort) so it's not completely fair to compare it to GT4, which has essentially been in the works since something like 1997 when GT first came out. They've had a lot of time to perfect the GT formula and in some areas, Forza did exceed what GT has done in all this time. But I can't help but feel there are better multiplayer racers out there (PGR2, Outrun 2, and MotoGp 2) and can't help but give the nod to GT4 for now.

LordFarid · 07-19-2005, 07:13 AM

If only they had made GT4 completely online enabled the discussion over which was the best racing game would be over. One last question I have about forza though. Is it required to do all the single player missions to get all the cars like in PG2?

I loved starting with crappy cars in Gran Turismo and it is still the top in my opinion. I found it a dissapointment when they dropped the second hand cars in Gran Turismo 2, there was nothing like searching the market for a cheap second hand car and then turning that car slowly but surely into a kick ass monster. The beauty of gran turismo was that you could spend hours entertaining yourself while you are hardly racing except to try out the changes you had implemented.

But it is more. It's also the feel of the cars. With all due respect, PGR2 was a fun game, especially in online mode, but the racing feels more closely to wipeout than it does to real life racing. Ok maybe i'm overreacting, but when I play gran turismo, the cars feel heavy, realistic on the track. Yet at the same time it has gameplay that isn't too hard, it is easy to get into.

It's perfect, and I will be looking forward most to a Gran Turismo with properly implemented online mode (most likely to be GT5 on PS3). Or Microsoft gets its act together and Forza 2 will beat out Gran Turismo at last. From what I'm hearing from Forza that is not the case at this moment though, which means for the single player you still have GT reigning and for the multiplayer the best game is likely still the "fun" but incomplete PRG2.

The utopia still remains then. My utopia would be Gran Turismo 5, with 1000 cars including the return of second hand cars. A fully implemented trade system. A noob should be able to buy a second hand car after a couple of hours of racing, then after a couple of hours playing he should be able to slowly tune it into a racing monster. He should be able to edit the entire exterior of the car, adding flags, stickers and whatever he wants and then should be able to sell it at a profit on the online market. Best thing would be that if you are a good tuner who knows everything about cars and engines etc, you should be able to make more money on the online market, as people that don't know much about tuning or don't want to spend too much time on it would love to spend some more cash to buy a perfectly tuned car instead of going to the hardship themselves.

The beauty of Gran Turismo is that even thought its a single player game, it already lasts forever. One can entertain himself literally their entire summer holiday with one of the Gran Turismo games. Combining that with online gameplay, frankly has the potential of turning the game into an experience that doesn't last weeks but potentially months or years even. Especially if Sony does decide to add a harddisk to their PS3 after all since then they could even add new cars and new tracks on a regular basis.

It's amazing that from all the reviews its still clear that not only is GT4 still gameplay and single player leader but it is quite amazingly also still the racing game with best graphics, despite the fact that the PS2 is so outdated. Can you freaking imagine how beautiful GT5 would look on PS3?

So stop getting excited about PGR3 and Forza 2 people, the game that will render all other racing games obsolete is GT5 and unfortunatly we still have to wait years probably before we can play it.

Oh and if sony decide not to include online gameplay in GT5 I will never buy another product from sony again. Ever.

EnduroGamer · 07-19-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassbeast

I've had that problem when playing the Lord of the Hyrule games...

*runs for cover*

Not Gandalf! I don't know what I was thinking. I meant Gargamel of course.

As for the real discussion, Lord may be right about GT5 being what we're all really looking for, but I'll leave the waiting to him. PGR3 will be here in 4 months. GT5 at in 3 to 4 years.

ferrarimanf355 · 07-19-2005, 11:11 AM

GT5 would be interesting to me if they just had Ferraris, Porsches and Lamborghinis. I don't want to try to get 200 HP from a Scion xB, just give me the F355s, Carrera GTs and Murcielagos!

And don't bring up RUF. They're counterfit Porsches.

LordFarid · 07-19-2005, 11:13 AM

That's true and I'll probably get an Xbox 360 myself too and maybe will get PGR3 as well (since i still believe that the online mode of PGR3 is awesome). That being said I'm afraid that GT5 will be the game that will force all racing fans to buy a PS3. It will probably take years though.