New Review Posted: Thief: Deadly Shadows

[Daniel Weissenberger]

The gaming industry's continuing love affair with the colon... well... continues, here in Mike Doolittle's review of Thief: Deadly Shadows:

"As a dedicated console gamer, I've never laid my hands on either of the popular Thief PC games, which are largely credited with pioneering the stealth genre. Thief: Deadly Shadows is my first foray into the series and after hearing so much overwhelming praise garnered by the first two games I expected to be thoroughly impressed. And while I was indeed impressed with the depth and artistry of its design, Thief is far from perfect. It is, at best, a well-conceived but flawed entry into the stealth genre."

The rest of the review is available here: http://www.gamecritics.com/review/thief3/main.php

[EnduroGamer]

I haven't played the game, but that read like a damn fine review. Good job, LD!

I especially liked the following comment:

Rarely does the idea of multiple paths add enough strategy to compensate for the confusion it creates.

That sums up how I feel about too many games too much of the time.

[Hypatia93]

Excellent review, LD!

I must say that this year's been filled with disappointment after disappoinment in the "I can't wait for X game" department. What that means to me is that I have to stop buying into the hype.

If a fellow who's never played the Thief series on the PC (one of my absolute all time favorites) didn't much care for the third installment, then there's little hope. I hadn't picked it up before, and I probably won't now. I don't need to see it and be disappointed with my very own eyes.

[Zanbatou]

The original Thief is also one of my all time favorites, and I must say that, for me at least, overall Thief 3 did not disappoint. It's got its own set of quirks and minor annoyances, but its a solid game and, more importantly, it feels like a Thief game. Consider that most of the criticisms put forth in the review could be aimed at the original as well before you write Deadly Shadows off.

[Hypatia93]

Originally Posted by Zanbatou

The original Thief is also one of my all time favorites, and I must say that, for me at least, overall Thief 3 did not disappoint. It's got its own set of quirks and minor annoyances, but its a solid game and, more importantly, it feels like a Thief game. Consider that most of the criticisms put forth in the review could be aimed at the original as well before you write Deadly Shadows off.

Okay.. I won't take it off my list /completely/, but it is much further down the list than it used to be.

Question: Did you like the console DX: Invisible Wars? I finished it to completion, saving just at the right times so I could get all 4 -- 5? endings. I was /so/ excited about the title, b/c the first DX on the PC is also one of my faves. But.. while at first I loved everything about the console game, it wore on me, especially the load times, and especially b/c it just didn't have that "feel" its predecesor had. I've since resold it to Gamestop, just b/c how ultimately disappointing it was, and I knew I'd never give it another go-round.

P.S. By the same token, I suppose, one should never, never, never! try and watch a movie you loved as a kid but have not touched eyes upon since. I've done that, and let's just say the magick is stripped away. (And to also note: It's a very different thing if you started out watching something as a kid and continued to watch it into adulthood. The magick inevitably remains for some reason.)

[Mike Doolittle]

Thanks for the kind words everybody. I was actually a bit unsatisfied with the review because it was a rush job and worried it would show as much. I got some glue on the disc (from a CD seal that was lying around) that has been causing some audio glitches and load/freeze problems, and I can't freaking get it off. So it took a little longer to make progress in the game and the review was kind of tossed together at the last minute.

And I tried... OH I tried not to mention splinter cell... haha. I couldn't help myself. I like Thief, and Hypatia, I'd definitely recommend you at least rent. It's not a bad game at all, actually quite excellent in many respects. But as a stealth game, the Splinter Cell games are unequivocally better. More focused, more challenging, more variety to the gameplay, more solutions to the puzzles. Thief's whole thing about being able to reach your objective through one hallway or get to the same place by another just didn't do anything for me, since the gameplay is the same either way and most of the time I just got lost. I'd rather see a focused game than an expansive one.

But even though I think it's not the best stealth game out there, its narrative, design and setting are very good. If you liked the first two I imagine you'll still enjoy the third.

[Zanbatou]

Deus Ex: Invisible War was my most anticipated game of all time, and it dissapointed me (of course). You're spot on, Hypatia, when you say it just didn't have the same "feel" as its predacessors. Thief does.

However.. I'd say definately get in on the PC if you can. I imagine the graphics, control, and load times are all improved... but more importantly that whole infamous "ai-bug" that resets the game's difficulty to normal whenever you load or transision in a level is the worst glitch in an otherwise good game that I've ever heard of. It could have been a game breaker for me if I hadn't been able to quickly patch it. The improved senses of the enemies on expert gives the ai many more chances to shine.

PS: with the PC version you can also play on the harder difficulties without the really annoying "collect 90 percent of the useless and sometimes well hidden treasure" objectives... provided you're willing to mess around with the game's .ini files a bit. Just thought I'd mention it.

[Hypatia93]

No can do on the PC, but I /will/ eventually get the game. It may be a while though. But thanks for the responses, guys; like I've said elsewhere, the opinions and reviews on this board matter more to me than those from anywhere else. Right now I've got a lot on my plate, else I'd pick it up.

And Zan.. I feel your pain (though in some ways the letdown for my most anticipated game.. ever, was self-inflicted). Honestly, I do feel it. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to think of a game I want to play that might /possibly/ fill the aching void, but it can't be this one; there was too much anticipation already vested in it. So I'll save my purchase and play of it for another time, after I've "calmed down."

[SlyFoxx]

.....from articleAdditionally, the vast majority of the time, the idea of multiple routes adds nothing to the gameplay. Garret can either enter through one door and sneak past the guards, or do the exact same thing from another entrance. Rarely does the idea of multiple paths add enough strategy to compensate for the confusion it creates.

Gotta disagree with you there. Part of the great thing about the Thief series is that it causes you to stop and think...not just proceed along the path like Sam Fisher. Most die hard thiefers (is that a word??) live for that open ended type of game-play. But alas Deadly Shadows fell way short in may areas compared to T1 and T2. It should have been developed for PC only. Limitations of Xbox killed a lot of possibilities.

BTW load times for zones are not bad at all for the PC. But the game is a resource hog and you need a pretty stout machine and video card to run it correctly. My 1.6gig P4 and GeForce FX5500 kinda choked, forcing me to run it at a very low screen resolution to get acceptable frame rate.\

But all in all what's best about T3 is the completion of the Thief story. Those who have not played T1&2 will be missing out on a few things.

As one of the more active members of the Thief community releasing two Fan Missions (a 3rd is in the works) and voice acting for Garrett and numerous other characters for dozens of other Fan Missions I feel I have the clout to speak along these lines.

All in all though the review was pretty good. T3 is a good game that could have been a great one.

-sly-

[EnduroGamer]

Gotta disagree with you there. Part of the great thing about the Thief series is that it causes you to stop and think...not just proceed along the path like Sam Fisher. Most die hard thiefers (is that a word??) live for that open ended type of game-play. But alas Deadly Shadows fell way short in may areas compared to T1 and T2. It should have been developed for PC only. Limitations of Xbox killed a lot of possibilities.

If I may comment here, I'd like to say that first of all, this is a review of Thief: Deadly Shadows. Not the entire Thief series.

Secondly, Thief: Deadly Shadows was universally shrugged at by the PC gaming community as well. Whatever limitations you think the Xbox has, I can assure you that they don't limit a designer's imagination and his/her ability to create a more fleshed-out game design. They do not limit level design, and they do not limit enemy placement. The Xbox didn't "limit" what eventually became the PC's Game of the Year last year -- KOTOR -- and it didn't "limit" the ga,eplay of the behemoth, Morrowind.

True, Half-Life 2 and Doom III and probably Tron 2.0 may not look as nice running on a tv as they do on a dream system, but the AI and overall design will remain in tact.

[Zanbatou]

Most die hard thiefers (is that a word??)

I believe the word you're looking for is "taffers".

And Moron, I could be wrong, but based on the numerous petitions I've seen on the net lately I'm pretty sure DS's editor is not yet available to the public. Sly was probably speaking about fan missions from the previous two games... somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

[SlyFoxx]

No level editor or SDK was released with Deadly Shadows (T3). (a petition to get Eidos to release an editor is under way) FM's are for T1 and T2 only. There are about 400 or so and many (I 'd guess 30-40) are WAAAYYYYY better than any of the original missions for T1/2/3. But 90% are well worth a run...even mine You can find the first two thief games for about 10 bucks a pop.

We have a very talented and dedicated cadre of mission makers. One FM maker , Sledge, aka Dave Reigel was on the T3 team. Another , Purah, aka Tony Huso has been hired by a game developer in Europe IIRC. The community have expanded the original game with lots of custom objects, textures, AI, sounds and innovations that I'm sure make old Looking Glass employees proud.

You can find lots of friendly and helpful taffers at www.ttlg.com . Find the Thief Forums and you'll find lots of links and FAQ threads. Sign-in and ask questions if you need to. DL's of FM's are free. Nobody makes a cent...it's all a labor of love.

I've got many voice acting reqests still on my plate and am privy to lots of inside info. For a game that's ancient by gaming standards there are still many folks keeping the flame lit. Long live that buggy beast we call DromEd!

[EnduroGamer]

Originally Posted by Moron Lite

Also, Enduro, I think there is something to the point about simultaneous development for XBox and PC limiting what the game is capable of...this was a major complaint by the PC community against Deus Ex: Invisible War as well. I don't think it's necessarily true that simultaneous development is going to lead to hampered design, but there certainly seems to be something in the way Ion Storm approached both games that ulimately led them to suffer.

Yes, it *may* have been the root cause of what many feel to be Deus Ex's and Thief's shortcomings, but I can't help but feel that this is a cop-out. If we're talking about more about a decision to "dumb down" these games for the Xbox audience, then the real problem here isn't "limitations" of the Xbox, but rather a developer's willingness to take the easy road. They could have still made their "mainstream" Xbox version after they gave the PC gamers what they wanted/expected. After all, it was the PC faithful who filled Ion Storm's vaults in the first place.

We can try and play the blame game all we want, but in the end the real problem is either shortsightedness on the part of the publisher or just laziness by the developers for not demanding the time and resources to put out the game their fans expect.

If this is what the earlier post meant by "limitations" then I agree with it. I interpreted his/her comment to be more about tech abilities, than of Ion Storm's resources.

[ChillY BillY 49]

I played thief 2 ages back and totally loved it. When i heard theif 3 was coming out i bought thief 1 and played it so i could get the whole trilogy experience. I was suprised how good the first one still was even in 2004, if you look past the graphics.

If you don't want to spend all the money on a new game, i suggest getting the first two, they are dirt cheap and are still great. It must be experienced, they are the only games that freaked me out while playing (apart from alien vs predator).

As for the review, i thought it mostly fair, theif 3 definatey was not as good as the first two and it felt way too rushed for my liking.

My major gripe was the loading zones, that almost totally ruined it for me. The greatest thing about the first two was huge levels and complete freedom, something not achieved in this new game. Remember Theif 2's 'life of the party'? Now THAT was a level, totally huge and majorly fun.

[SlyFoxx]

Are your levels attributed to 'SlyFoxx'?

Yes. They are..."Fletcher's Final Mistake" you can grab it here http://thiefmissions.com/ (about 14MB)
and "Bafford's Bone Collection" a small mission made for Komag's 5th small FM contest....you can find it here....www.keepofmetalandgold.com (about .9MB)