New Review Posted: Dynasty Warriors 5

Daniel Weissenberger · 02-08-2006, 06:59 PM

Chi Kong Lui reviews Dynasty Warriors 5, and has a message for people who don't like the series:

"This review is for all the Dynasty Warriors-haters (which appear to be mostly people from the Western hemisphere). Dynasty Warriors 5 isn't all that different from part 4 which wasn't all the different from part 3. The 1980's guitar-riffing soundtrack is still present. The graphics, while improved from previous versions, still generally look dated. There are minor changes and tweaks to the modes and gameplay, but those aren't important."

Why not? Find out here.

legendarypegasu · 02-08-2006, 09:20 PM

Good review Chi. I am also amazed that DW is criticized for a lack of innovation or changes, when GTA, Zelda, the big platformer series (Jak, R&C) and countless other games are basically the same thing witha with tweaks but immediately praised. The lack of innovation doesn't bother me at all, as you said the gameplay just hits my "sweet spot." I can play DW for hours and not mind at all.

Edit Chi, I was wondering if you got a chance you to play Dynasty Warriors 4:Empires and what you thought of it.

Chi Kong Lui · 02-10-2006, 02:03 AM

You know what's funny? Check out the opening paragraph to X-play's review of DW5:
"There are two different philosophies when designing sequels to successful games. One approach is to use the first game as a springboard to try something new, something more ambitious, like recent entries in the Jak and Daxter or Grand Theft Auto franchises, which risks disappointing the target audience. The safe approach is to add more features without altering what made the original a success. Dynasty Warriors 5 falls into the latter category, which should be as surprising to fans as discovering puddles after a thunderstorm. "
http://www.g4tv.com/xplay/features/5..._5_Review.html

It just boggles the mind why some titles get such a huge pass.

To answer your question, I did not play Empires. I was hoping it would make it to Xbox because I really wanted to play a DW on the Xbox for a change to see if there was any difference in slow-down and graphics. Empires was never released on Xbox so I just took a pass hoping that Dw5 would incorporate the same features. I'm little weary of picking up the updates because I personally am not really tired of the series because I only play the main sequels.

Chi

Hypatia93 · 02-10-2006, 11:44 AM

Chi,

I keep meaning to try one of the DWs (or the Samurai Warriors).. then I forget. But thankfully, you're here to remind me!

So I guess it's DW5 I need to put on my wishlist now, and take the other "outdated" titles off it.

One quick question: since I have both the PS2 and Xbox, which version should I buy? (I'm guessing the Xbox for all sorts of reasons, but still, you never know..)

Thanks again for the review. It's yours that get me to try cool titles like the WotS series and Fight Night. Which reminds me!

You know what would be an awesome game?!? A game like Fight Night only with honest to goodness, real life martial arts, like.. hwa-rang do, tsing-i, pa-qua, chen tai-chi, northern shao-lin, brazilian ju-jitsu, etc. (I only mentioned arts I've actually studied before, but of course, there are hoards of others.) Don't you think that would be keen?

Chi Kong Lui · 02-10-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypatia93

One quick question: since I have both the PS2 and Xbox, which version should I buy? (I'm guessing the Xbox for all sorts of reasons, but still, you never know..)

Hands down buy the Xbox version. Apparently a lot of technical slow issues have improved dramatically on both systems, but I'm sure its less of a problem in Xbox to begin with. But the best reasons is the Xbox version supports 5.1 digital sound and has the original Japanese dialogue track with english subs. Its still not 100% authentic since they should be talking in Chinese, but hell, its better than lame English voice-acting. Too bad the Xbox version doesn't support widescreen. That would be the ultimate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypatia93

Thanks again for the review. It's yours that get me to try cool titles like the WotS series and Fight Night. Which reminds me!

You know what would be an awesome game?!? A game like Fight Night only with honest to goodness, real life martial arts, like.. hwa-rang do, tsing-i, pa-qua, chen tai-chi, northern shao-lin, brazilian ju-jitsu, etc. (I only mentioned arts I've actually studied before, but of course, there are hoards of others.) Don't you think that would be keen?

The game you described should have been called Virtua Fighter 4, but I've gone on record on where it fails to be such a simulator. http://www.gamecritics.com/review/vf4/2nd_op.php

However, there is a game based on Mixed Martial Arts and its pretty good: Pride Fighting Championship. There isn't any Chinese martial arts, but you'll get wrestling, thai kickboxing, boxing, BJJ and Sambo submissions. Its arguable that Chinese martial arts would actually be effective in sport fighting or otherwise so I'm not sure its actually missed. Here's my 2003 review of the game: http://www.gamecritics.com/review/pridefc/main.php

Definintly worth picking up for $10. The game is an amazing primer to MMA fighting. Understanding the nature of all the ground positions (guard, full mount, rear mount, etc) through the games will open you eyes although if you've taken BJJ you probably know all of this already.

Man that's a long list of martial arts you've studied. Where do you find the time or the courage? I'm impressed! I think I lack the balls to go out there and "learn" something knew these days.

Thanks for reading.

Chi

Hypatia93 · 02-10-2006, 02:08 PM

Thanks for the addendum, Chi. I'll read your review after my response.

I don't study MA anymore, much to my chagrin, and I haven't studied for about ten years.

When I first started, I studied hwa-rang do, and it /exclusively/. Ideally, that's what one should do (imo). Pick an art and stay with it. I stayed with it for over 11 years, and yes, I was that good.

I loved Master Kim, too. But do to personal reasons, I left the state for about 7.5 mos. and just generally got out of it for about 1.5 - 2yrs. When I wanted to get back into the swing of things, I should've just gone back to him -- things would've been fine. But no.. not me. I was too ashamed.

So I did something I consider silly. I got another teacher -- a gaijin, no less. Blech. (Okay, I used a japanese derogatory word for a white teacher of Chinese arts. Sue me.) We never really "clicked," but I was /always/ respectful, and I studied just as hard with him as I did with Master Kim -- at least 5x a week, usually more (you know, taking multiple classes a day, and on Sat's too), and I'd do the gym about 3x wk also. With him I initially started Northern Shaolin, but the more you studied, and the more he saw you were willing to learn, and he would invite you to special classes -- say on Weds nights after reg classes or Sat mornings, etc. -- where he would teach BJJ or chen tai-chi. Or we'd have an eight week intensive "workshop" devoted to pa-qua, or something like that.

Then.. my grandfather teacher visited us for about a month; he was this 70-something wisp of a man from the Beijing area and a reknowned calligrapher as well (who could kick /anyone's/ ass and make it look easy!). Of course he spoke no English either. He was fantastic (and I still have the "official" picture of us together). Evidently, he thought I had some kind of potential (and must've liked me, too), b/c he would constantly correct my positions, even if it were just a hair's breadth, he had given me the priviledge of putting his signature block on any calligraphy pieces he did while he was there, and (drumroll please) he actually asked me if I wanted to come to China to study. I, however, am an idiot, and didn't.

Just ONE of the biggest regrets/mistakes of my life. *sigh*

Anyway, I do believe martial arts is a HUGE time commitment, but what do you mean about courage? Certainly now I'm too old and out-of-shape for probably anything more than say.. tai-chi or aikido (hwa-rang do, the mother of tae-kwan do, is /certainly/ out), but depending on your level of shape and overall health.. oh yeah, and what's available in your region, I'm sure you can find something that's good for you. (Just stay away from those horrid hard styles! Blech! Just my opinion.)

Vince · 02-10-2006, 02:49 PM

I'm really enjoying reading your posts, Hypatia. You put so much of yourself in it, I think I get a good sense of who you are. And to think at first I thought you were some 20 something smart mouth (being the first post of yours I read was your goth joke post).

I may have to rent this for the Xbox. Sometimes mindless hack and slash is a good way to unwind.

Hypatia93 · 02-10-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

I'm really enjoying reading your posts, Hypatia. You put so much of yourself in it, I think I get a good sense of who you are. And to think at first I thought you were some 20 something smart mouth (being the first post of yours I read was your goth joke post).

I'm just tricky that way.

But really.. if only I were 20-something again and knew what I know now..

How many oldsters say that? All of 'em!

But seriously, thanks for the compliment.

You'll probably learn, if you haven't already, that I don't pull punches. I do like to have fun, however. That's why I was teasing my good friend bass. There are lots of good blokes on here, and b/c I now live in nowheresville, this is the one place online (I don't get out much irl) I come to talk about all kinds of things -- not just games or gaming.

Oh, and I could've sworn I welcomed you to the boards, but if I didn't consider yourself welcomed now (at least by me, damn it!

)

EnduroGamer · 02-10-2006, 07:45 PM

I think part of the reason for the grumblings about the DW franchise versus other series that receive rather narrowly focused updates is that the DW series is just updated too frequently.

Here's the rundown of DW games avilable just for the PS2, courtesy of IGN's game search.

Dynasty Warriors 2 PS2 Omega Force KOEI 7.9 2000-10-26

Dynasty Warriors 3 PS2 Omega Force KOEI 8.5 2001-11-26

Dynasty Warriors 3: Xtreme Legends PS2 KOEI KOEI 2003-01-14

Dynasty Warriors 4 PS2 Omega Force KOEI 8.6 2003-03-25

Dynasty Warriors 4: Empires PS2 Omega Force KOEI 7.7 2004-08-31

Dynasty Warriors 4: Xtreme Legends PS2 Omega Force KOEI 2003-11-04

Dynasty Warriors 5 PS2 Omega Force KOEI 7.7 2005-03-29

Dynasty Warriors 5: Empires PS2 Omega Force KOEI 2006-03-28

Dynasty Warriors 5: Xtreme Legends PS2 Omega Force KOEI 5.2 2005-11-15

Dynasty Warriors Series Collection Joukan PS2 Omega Force KOEI 2006-01-01

Now you want to know why others get a pass? How many Zelda games have released for the GC? 1 (with a second on the way). How many Mario's? 1. How many Halos on the Xbox? 2.

Not 10.

Chi Kong Lui · 02-10-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnduroGamer

I think part of the reason for the grumblings about the DW franchise versus other series that receive rather narrowly focused updates is that the DW series is just updated too frequently.

You can't count the XL games because those are clearly for the more dedicated hardcore who can't get enough. The games are marketed and priced more as updates. The Empire games is admitedly a bit pushing it, but I see that as an attempt for Koei to stretch the depth series without alienating their core audience. I personally stayed away from any of the extra titles and I don't feel particularly DWed out. I don't think Koei expects audiences to play though each version.

So in roughly 5 years, there have been 4 parts (excluding the first one which really isn't a part of the series). The time frame is not bad in the modern age of Madden, but your comparison to Wind Waker is unfair. Comparing all the Zelda games versus all the DW games would be more to the point. This excludes many other series that could be used.

Keep in mind that this is all from a company that makes turn-based strategy games. The DW series is obviously their key mainstream earner and keeps them profitable much like the way Pokemon did for Nintendo for the last two console generations and the way GTA currently does for Rockstar.

I'm not trying to argue that DW is innovative. I'm just saying that its been unfairly criticized compared to other large franchaises.

Chi

EnduroGamer · 02-11-2006, 03:03 AM

Well, I could have listed all the PC, PSP, and DS and GBA games too.

Chi Kong Lui · 02-11-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnduroGamer

Well, I could have listed all the PC, PSP, and DS and GBA games too.

I was going to say the same about the Zelda series! Actually there are no DW DS titles and only one PSP and GBA. How many GBA and GBC Zelda titles are there?

Should Koei have put out lesser DW titles? Probably. But again, given that they are a niche developer that managed mainstream success with DW, its understandable that they have to milk the money cow more.

What I'm aruging in my review is that they aren't getting A-list treatment and I think they deserve it. To most North American gamers, DW is a fun weekend rental. To Japan and probably most of Asia, DW is a national treasure.

Chi

Jason Karney · 02-11-2006, 09:08 AM

Out of curiousity, what did anyone think when Koei branched out and tried hack-n-slash with a different theme, a la Crimson Sea?

I'm going to guess that because it didn't have "Dynasty" in the same, it didn't garner most people's attention. So there is some advantage to continuing a franchise (especially with the popularity it enjoys in Asia) as opposed to making changes.

Just ask EA Sports about this strategy.

--Jason

shun · 02-11-2006, 09:56 AM

What about Kessen 3? How did it fare?

EnduroGamer · 02-11-2006, 02:47 PM

Here you go Chi, DS versions of DW and Romance of the 3 Kingdoms...

http://ds.ign.com/articles/641/641570p1.html

Anyway, my point was more or less in response to LegendaryPegasus comments that other series show the similar lack of innovation and get a free pass. So I was just showing that if you ignore the other consoles and just look at the flagship entries, something like DW simply has way too many releases and that takes away from it.

Because, as a non-DW enthusiast, I walk into a store and I see the plethora of games and it just weakens the franchise in my mind. I don't know which one to get, I don't if they're all different, I don't know which ones are just expansions, or just harder, or what. I see three different games with the same Dynasty Warriors 4 logo and I immediately feel as if there's an inside joke being told and I'm not part of it.

In other words, the game is fun, and it is deep, and it should receive higher respect than it gets, but I blame it on the marketing team at Koei. Their decisions to pump out various volumes alienates those who aren't in the know.

It's one thing to release an annual update -- no problem -- but to then put out 3 different versions of that update? Now you're just been weird.

ADDENDUM: Case in point, the only DW game I ever bought was Dynasty Warriors 4 Xtreme Legends, not knowing that it was the super hardcore version that expected a previous game save. I have Samurai Warriors now and look forward to playing it because I know that it's not the uber-version of a lesser game. It's a standalone game. And that counts for something.

PS: Dynasty Tactics rules.