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Old 02-26-2007, 12:47 PM   #66
Mike Doolittle
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Re: The Root of all Evil/Trobule With Atheism

Let me try to bring this back around. You basically have five categories of belief. Now, you can probably divide these into further subcategories but I think five will be more than sufficient. Here they are:

1. Fundamentalist Atheism: "There is no God."
2. Agnostic Atheism "When I look at the world, I don't see anything that inclines me to believe there is a God. But maybe there is, I don't know."
3. Agnosticism: "I don't know either way"
4. Agnostic Theism: "When I look at the world, I see things that incline me to believe there is a God. But maybe there isn't. I don't know."
5. Fundamentalist Theism: "There is a God"

As I said earlier, faith is a matter of perspective. Speaking personally I see our very existence, the perfectly ordered physical laws that allow us to exist, the fact that our universe came into existence out of infinity, the fact that it cannot cause or perpetuate itself, as signs that the world was created and there is a God. The implications of that theology are significant.

You may see the same things I do, but say, "Meh. I don't see anything that inclines me to believe in a God." Fair enough. The implications of that theology are also significant. I'm not going to try to unequivocally refute that, because we simply do not know.

I think all your arguments would be valid if my own arguments met one condition: that I was asserting belief in God as a factual claim. I wasn't. I tried repeatedly to make that clear (I even explicitly stated I consider myself a "theistic agnostic") but maybe I didn't make it clear enough. We may not be able to quantitatively prove the existence of God, but we can observe the world around us and we can interpret it in a given way.

Now, if you want to grab Richard Dawkins and head over to a fundamentalist church where they're making assertions that God's existence is an undeniable scientific fact, give me a call because I'd love to go with you guys and lay the smackdown on the fundies.
But when it comes to agnostically oriented perspectives, I'm not sure what exactly it is that you find so unreasonable, or how it has anything in common with fairies and unicorns. I think both fundamentalist extremes are intellectually absurd, and that either agnostic inclination is a logical and valid perspective. It's not about what we know, it's about how we choose to interpret what we know.
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Last edited by Mike Doolittle; 02-26-2007 at 01:52 PM.
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