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Li-Ion 02-22-2013 02:51 AM

So, the PS4 then...
 
Everyone's surprised that there will be a new Playstation. Because we all assumed they would just stop making them. VideogamerTV provided a helpful summary of the press conference:



I am carefully optimistic, but when Sony proved one thing the last couple of years it's that they can really f*** things up. That said, the Playstation Plus service is on the right track and Gaikai seems to push it to the next level.

My single favourite moment was the trailer for "Deep Down", which apart from being a good name for an x-rated movie, is hopefully only a working title for Dragon's Dogma 2. Or Dragon's Souls if they want to call it that.

But overall... the only really surprising part was that there's Diablo 3 coming on PS3. Oh, and also on PS4. There is a new Killzone, a new inFamous, a new GT game in all but name, David Cage really needs a hug, Watch Dogs still looks cool, Media Molecule did something I can't even explain but it looked cool and as a shocker at the end: there will be another Final Fantasy game at some point.

Pedro 02-23-2013 04:49 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
It's all a little underwhelming. The specs seem to be great (all that RAM) and the ball is in Microsoft's court now to match that, but at the end of the day which system is better is all posturing and irrelevant as it is the exact same games that will be released for each console (for the most part).

The features that they do have seem built firmly around social media and the cloud, which I personally have no great interest in. I'm not sure what cloud gaming offers - the idea of pre-loading a game or starting to play it as it downloads is a bit crap - like I can't wait? And who wants to watch you someone else playing a game? If I could record, edit and share Madden highlights with this thing though, I'd be delighted :)

I didn't watch the coverage, and the articles I read had an unimpressed tone - mostly around the 'bigger isn't better' thesis.

If PSN adopted Steam-like pricing they would clean up. If game manufacturers got in league with the big two console makers with digital and offered discounts, they could put the nail in retail's coffin in a few years (in the more developed countries at least).

That's only the second trailer I have seen for Watch Dogs - if they make it work like that, it will be cool. It seems very content-rich, remains to be seen how much is smoke and mirrors.

I will buy one. I won't be in a huge rush (though my PS3 is starting to make some fan noises now, I hope it holds out) but I'll probably get one eventually.

RandomRob 02-24-2013 07:28 AM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
I think Sony is going to really blow it. They sold their headquarters in Manhattan to push their stock price, and are marketing the social connection features of the PS4.. like what gamers want is to be able to auto-download gameplay videos to youtube, etc. It feels like they're already behind. I'm not optimistic, and not interested.

It seems to me the business model for consoles is close to it's breaking point. Making everything depend on pre-orders of physical copies of games that cost 60$ and then force the consumer to spend more money for mandatory unlocks and DLC means the cost of a new console game is nearly a fifth to a quarter of what a console costs.

I dont think PCs and game servers like Steam have ever been more functional and attractive.

Pedro 02-24-2013 02:44 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Well, we have to remember here that the primary purpose of the console is to play games with a minimum of fuss - turn it on and load your game. This digital and social stuff isn't very interesting (maybe the yoof love it) but at the end of the day your console is a simple tool to play games and stream Netflix and the NFL and that's it.

This is just the next iteration of that.

I was thinking the same about PC - that it is now a viable alternative, but you still have price and complexity with the PC. The price of a console-like PC may be affordable, but then what else can you do on it without filling it full of drivers and other junk that will edge it away from being a simple console. Will you be able to play keyboard and mouse games on it, or will the whole games industry then be moving away from games with those type of input systems? So the whole PC thing isn't cut and dried either.

Of course I am talking about the Steam Box - but normal desktop PC gaming is expensive and has a high barrier to entry too.

ZippyDSMlee 02-24-2013 03:34 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Looking at the fou BWC for it sends me into such a state of dread, do they even realize how many hurdles it is for a company to get a game on PSN?

About the only good thing I can think of is playing Vita games on the PS4 but I am un sure if it even dose that....

Frankly I'd rather have a PS3(with emotion) and 360 duct taped together IE tipple the ramm and video unit and have the X86 CPU,sound, ect parts run some of the PS3 architecture. Yet PS4 games would have a 3X or better base over the PS3 to work from.

I can think of a dozen ways to make it a better system for under 450$ at a 200 loss and get all gamers to happily buy into it, even more so if they do not have a PS3..... these morons should be dragged to the streets and shot.....
============


Rant aside if its 300 or under then its not a bad price at all.

RandomRob 02-24-2013 06:11 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Consoles are based on manufacturing model thats almost 30 years out of date. ie- selling discs. It's wasteful and overpriced. And used digital property can't be resold, which is what publishers want.

As for PC price.. spend double what you'd pay for a new system and it's peripherals, and split the savings on the games.

Popular launch titles of last generation like Just Cause 2 for ps3 and Xbox 360 still run $20 for a game disc, but you can regularly buy them on Steam for 2.50$

I think PCs vs consoles has the same flaw in it as the american vs japanese car argument. Because it's been shown that japanese cars are better made, people spend more on them for maintenance, and vice versa- they run their american cars into the ground because they just expect to get rid of them after a few years. So the perception perpetuates the model. Same with consoles. You keep or sell the old one and buy a new one and a new library of games, and forget the money you lose. But if you buy a big PC with good memory and power, you just have to replace the CPU and GPU every few years. It's less money. And your library is in cyberspace.

eh, I'm ranting. I wouldn't be ranting if Sony was making some effort to differentiate themselves from their competitors, which I don't see them doing. I think what theyre doing is listening to marketing and focus groups and fucking up their game. Worrying about social online features is a last generation sales point, kids do all that already with everything else. They're getting bored of it. I'm sorry, just f____ Sony. I'm over it.

ZippyDSMlee 02-24-2013 07:33 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomRob (Post 205760)
Consoles are based on manufacturing model thats almost 30 years out of date. ie- selling discs. It's wasteful and overpriced. And used digital property can't be resold, which is what publishers want.

As for PC price.. spend double what you'd pay for a new system and it's peripherals, and split the savings on the games.

Popular launch titles of last generation like Just Cause 2 for ps3 and Xbox 360 still run $20 for a game disc, but you can regularly buy them on Steam for 2.50$

I think PCs vs consoles has the same flaw in it as the american vs japanese car argument. Because it's been shown that japanese cars are better made, people spend more on them for maintenance, and vice versa- they run their american cars into the ground because they just expect to get rid of them after a few years. So the perception perpetuates the model. Same with consoles. You keep or sell the old one and buy a new one and a new library of games, and forget the money you lose. But if you buy a big PC with good memory and power, you just have to replace the CPU and GPU every few years. It's less money. And your library is in cyberspace.

eh, I'm ranting. I wouldn't be ranting if Sony was making some effort to differentiate themselves from their competitors, which I don't see them doing. I think what theyre doing is listening to marketing and focus groups and fucking up their game. Worrying about social online features is a last generation sales point, kids do all that already with everything else. They're getting bored of it. I'm sorry, just f____ Sony. I'm over it.

And even cheaper offline, I'll put you down in the do not like owning anything and "I LOVE ANAL PROBES "catagory...... I prefer physical media as it becomes much cheaper over time than digital distribution which if popular stays at 10-30% more than retail physical item price. Until they amend copy right to ensure and protect the resell of digital items fuck them, I'm not going gladly into a walled digital garden. At least I still own my physical copies enough to where I am not belligered or badgered for them to go online, update console(this console will self destruct in 20 seconds without going online and getting the anal lube, probes come later) or crap.

And I think I just out ranted you....out gibberished at the least..... LOL

Pedro 02-25-2013 11:58 AM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Zippy, you should be careful about insulting the Moderator of the forum...;)

I am afraid the days of physical media are numbered. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomRob (Post 205760)
Consoles are based on manufacturing model thats almost 30 years out of date. ie- selling discs. It's wasteful and overpriced. And used digital property can't be resold, which is what publishers want.

Sure, and I think we're in broad agreement. Eventually this model will work for consoles, especially as we gain bandwidth and move away from download limits (I assume this will happen). PC Gamers, being the most technologically advanced, are possibly the most likely to already have this model in place.

Quote:

As for PC price.. spend double what you'd pay for a new system and it's peripherals, and split the savings on the games.

Popular launch titles of last generation like Just Cause 2 for ps3 and Xbox 360 still run $20 for a game disc, but you can regularly buy them on Steam for 2.50$

I think PCs vs consoles has the same flaw in it as the american vs japanese car argument. Because it's been shown that japanese cars are better made, people spend more on them for maintenance, and vice versa- they run their american cars into the ground because they just expect to get rid of them after a few years. So the perception perpetuates the model. Same with consoles. You keep or sell the old one and buy a new one and a new library of games, and forget the money you lose. But if you buy a big PC with good memory and power, you just have to replace the CPU and GPU every few years. It's less money. And your library is in cyberspace.
Sure, but convenience, no? It may make sense long-term but there are obstacles to the PC approach.

I can't currently walk into a store and buy a PC off the shelf that can play the latest games without paying an extortionate price. This may change.

I could buy a cheap gaming PC, but I'd have to spec it myself. Who wants to do that?

The Steam Box or a cheap alternative may be launched. Will it be easy to use? Will an advertising campaign be able to target the console demographic?

Will it sound like I have a hairdryer sitting beside my TV? Because that is a dealbreaker.

With the new console processing power, will the PC arms race begin again? In which case a PC box could fall prey to that and be redundant again.

Do I want to play Vampire The Masquerade on my PC Box sitting on my couch? Sure, I probably do....but how many of the target demographic do?

I love the idea of the Bro Gamer, who plays only sports games. A lot of the guys in my Madden league play only sports games, with a bit of Assassin's Creed sprinkled in (no CoD, funnily enough). But then they are Euro guys playing an American sports game, they are probably maniacs.

I can't see the PS4 being less than 399 in each currency, so a PC box could compete price wise....maybe. It will really be fascinating to see how it will compete overall. We're in for an interesting year, I think.

RandomRob 02-25-2013 01:33 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro (Post 205767)
I could buy a cheap gaming PC, but I'd have to spec it myself. Who wants to do that?

I don't understand this argument. It's like not wanting to wash the dishes because it's going to 'take too long'.

Funny thing is, most online retailers in the US anyway, have been doing away with 'build your own' PC options. So your choices are actually very limited now as to what kindof gaming PC you can get. And the fundamental rule of thumb is that you always get shorted on the CPU and the GPU. Anything under 1200$ or therabouts and you're getting low end chips and graphics cards. Alienware specializes in gaming PCs and are notorious for using low end parts. The companies that specialize in gaming PCs charge you an arm and a leg for a system you could cobble together for half the price, with little computer know-how.

All you need to do is find a PC with a big case, big memory and power supply- those things are dirt cheap.. and then look at your options for upscaling on the processor and graphics. It's not the 1980s anymore.. this stuff is easy to do.

anyway-

I think Sony's gonna stumble this year, that's my prediction. Releasing the ps4 while they've still got the Vita and the ps3 in the mix reminds me of Sega putting out the Dreamcast.

Too much hardware, not enough support.

And the investors know it. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...fter-PS4-Event

RandomRob 02-25-2013 01:36 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro (Post 205767)
Zippy, you should be careful about insulting the Moderator of the forum...;)

Everything in moderation, including moderation, I always say-

RandomRob 02-25-2013 01:46 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
and this-

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...m_campaign=all

ZippyDSMlee 02-25-2013 02:48 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro (Post 205767)
snip




=============

Pedro

Ture but I will fight it tooth and nail until my consumer rights are fully protected.

If you can not understand the trifictea of CPU/RAMM/VIDEO then perhaps you need to get out of gaming altogether.... either grow up and understand the basics to protect yourself or bend over.

damn I am a blunt basaretd ><
=====================
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomRob (Post 205769)
Everything in moderation, including moderation, I always say-

Oro oro Did I offend? I didn't mean to, mostly saying if you do not fight digital distribution then not only will it take over but it will become a rental scheme where you have to rebuy things once a year or so. I'll welcome digital distribution fully when its treated like physical media and I own the end user license and may resell it how I see fit, its up the IP owners to make this transaction smooth if not they are stagnating the market and dragging their feet not me.

Anyway I do not think I was being direct and hare-full with my silly statement but if it felt like my gibberish was so then I apologize , I am generally more whack ass crazy than abrasive LOL

RandomRob 02-25-2013 03:18 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Zippy, you're fine! You're one of the... 4 people who actually post here regularly. How could I get mad at you? :o

ZippyDSMlee 02-25-2013 03:48 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomRob (Post 205772)
Zippy, you're fine! You're one of the... 4 people who actually post here regularly. How could I get mad at you? :o

Need to post more but meh ranting on facebook and posting drawings on Deviant art has me wasting my good energy.


Got a Dungeons rave post I am working on, have to proof read it more. ><

Going to try and see about Fallout 3 rigging so I can get a weapon I made skinned right, when ever I get that done I will post it here.

Variants include arched spit and arched rain spread (20-50 low damage projectiles) heheheehehehe Mmmmmm It shall be dubbed the Centaur -V !

Pedro 02-25-2013 04:30 PM

Re: So, the PS4 then...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZippyDSMlee (Post 205771)
If you can not understand the trifictea of CPU/RAMM/VIDEO then perhaps you need to get out of gaming altogether.... either grow up and understand the basics to protect yourself or bend over.

damn I am a blunt basaretd ><

I have no clue :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomRob (Post 205768)
I don't understand this argument. It's like not wanting to wash the dishes because it's going to 'take too long'.

......

All you need to do is find a PC with a big case, big memory and power supply- those things are dirt cheap.. and then look at your options for upscaling on the processor and graphics. It's not the 1980s anymore.. this stuff is easy to do.

I think you built one last year, correct? I looked into it before Xmas this year, and after studying everything carefully, the sense that I could make an expensive mistake overruled everything else (even the most straightforward guides had caveats about bottlenecks to the GPU, the perils of selecting the wrong power supply, and so on). Choosing a graphics card was a complete pain, given the variety of stuff available, and then cross-referencing to all your other components. (I wasn't gonna build it, just buy the components, but even that was beyond me).

I'm saying most people are not going to do it, no way. The possibility of spending 300 bucks on a GPU or whatever a motherboard costs and then finding it to be inadequate for your needs will drive people away.


Regarding Jim Sterling - that's all very well, but what were people expecting from the hardware? It's a bit disingenuous to be complaining about a lack of imagination with developers, when the whole industry is built around reinforcing a complete lack of originality and parroting press releases. Go on IGN and look at a review for a triple A game. All is as expected, 8s across the board. Now go and look at the review for a game that dares to do something different. Slated. Completely fucked over.

Developers can use the console as an excuse, but Sony merely provide the hardware. Ok, the unveiling was full of complete nonsense about it enabling people to make better games, but we can give them that, no? It was their big launch, they had to big it up.

I didn't know that they weren't gonna support PSN games. That is very poor. Sony have a decent product in PS+ (though as a member of 6 months the only game I've actually played is Limbo :) ) so maybe, just maybe they can build on the nous they displayed there and someone over there knows what they are doing.

I wouldn't worry too much about the stock - it'll rise on speculation and drop on hard news, every time. I don't think their institutional investors know too much about game consoles (although maybe they do).

Also, I suppose the Wii U has dropped out of the serious running now, so there are only 2 consoles (plus the Steam Box).


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