Torchlight

[joetbd]

Torchlight follows the standard blueprint, that has been in place for decades.

- A fixed overhead/iso camera view
- Static characters to start with
- the basic click on enemies to attack
- flashy special abilities
- a seemingly endless supply of baddies
- miles of unexplored dungeon passageways.
- and a standard town hub to restock supplies
- no Joystick support.

The playable characters are the archer, Mage, and fighter. The archer uses a bow, the mage magic, and the fighter melee. But they all use a kind of magic (as a second/special ability). And they can use any weapon (as long as their stats are high enough) I have not run across any class specific weapons yet.

I hear these guys are some of the original people that worked on diablo. If so, that would explain a lot. Because many of the sound effects, music, and terms seem to be taken directly from Diablo.
I think the blacksmith actually uses a few of the same exact spoken lines from diablo.

And the visual style seems close to what I have seen from Diablo 3.

Theres not much to explain, these games have been pretty standard for years. Some of the specific wrinkles that TorchLight offers:

- Pack animal/companion (dog or cat)
- experience loss on death (or restart level)
- side missions , with their own portal system
- quick swap different weapon sets

Its a very clean, simple, and attractive game. That shows a lot of polish. Particularly for its $20 price tag.

[joetbd]

The MAJOR sticking point with this game, is the multiplayer. Dating all the way back to the original Gantlet, these games are usually based on a co-op multiplayer experience. TorchLight has no multiplayer at all.

They are working on making it into an MMO, or so I hear. But that really has nothing to do with the here and now. This is a fun game, but it cries out for multiplayer.

And whats with the fishing?

Fishing – Players can take a break from the high-energy pace of adventuring to visit one of the fishing holes and relax and see what they can catch.

[joetbd]

I've got one of every type of character going (3). The highest of which is the a level 20 Archer.

Its interesting, that you dont have to play any character any specific way. Its perfectly possible to have an archer with 100% of their points spent on Str and Def.

The only difference (restriction) between the characters is which special abilities are available to spend exp points on.

There is an interview, with the guys that made the game over at Idle Thumbs. Its the October 27, Max Schaefer episode.

The thing that has struck me is how there doesn't seem to be that much difficulty progression, as you advance through the game.

- on a technical side. I have had couple issues with items permanently disappearing from my inventory. And the load times can be pretty long.

[Mike Bracken]

I need to download this later today. Diablo-esque loot-whoring with graphics that look like they came out of WoW is a must play for me.

The only disappointment so far (aside from the lack of multiplayer, which doesn't really bother me anyway) is that there are only three classes to choose from so far.

[joetbd]

I was expecting people to really jump on board with this game. It basically is Diablo 2009, minus battlenet.

Is this the reaction Warcraft and Startcraft would get, if they did not come under the flag of "blizzard"?

[Mike Bracken]

I'll play devil's advocate here and suggest why people probably haven't jumped on Torchlight.

First off, I think all of us have been suckered in by the "Game X is the new Diablo!" on at least one occasion, only to find that Game X is only like Diablo in that you kill things and pick up loot. The magical lightning in a bottle that makes Diablo Diablo is usually missing.

We've even seen this from games featuring people who worked on Diablo (Hellgate, for example). Unfortunately, it's the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome happening in reverse here I think.

Second, the timing isn't great. A true Diablo clone is always welcome around here, but Diablo III is out there--and I think a lot of people are just feeling like "meh, I'll wait for the real deal to hit".

Finally, There's the stigma of the $20 game. I can't speak for everyone (and I've actually been thinking of doing a feature or podcast segment on this), but when I see a game selling for less than retail, my initial action isn't "awesome! cheap games rock!", but is instead "what's so wrong with this game that they felt like they couldn't hit me for $50-$60 to play it?" I think we can all point to a lot of full priced retail games that weren't worthy of carrying that price point but did anyway. It seems too good to be true when someone comes along offering something for less. I suspect this might change as more and more cheap downloadable content becomes available, but currently I think lots of folks view any cheap game with trepidation.

Throw in the lack of cooperative play, the fact that there's only three playable classes at the moment, etc. and I'm not surprised people haven't jumped on it.

[Tim Spaeth]

I have a level 11 barbarian (or whatever he's called) going and while I'm enjoying the game on a casual level, on normal difficulty it's completely mindless. The loot is so good and plentiful that I'm WAY overpowered. I don't take any damage and there's no incentive to use any skills behind the special attack you start with.

SOOOOO...I'm going to start a new character tonight, the steampunk-looking guy, on Hard, and see if it gets more interesting. (Joe what difficulty level are you on?) I've heard of people playing it as a roguelike; starting on Very Hard and toggling the "Hardcore" switch. That sounds appealing as I'm going through a roguelike phase right now.

[joetbd]

Tim, I think you can edit the a setting file or save file, and change the difficulty of an on going game. (sorry, I had a more in depth answer, but it got deleted - stupid computer)

Originally Posted by Mike Bracken

First off, I think all of us have been suckered in by the "Game X is the new Diablo!" on at least one occasion, only to find that Game X is only like Diablo in that you kill things and pick up loot.

People toss around the term Diablo Clone to the point where it has lost all meaning. See borderlands.

I thought that would actually work in TL's favor. People would be like "finally... this game really is like diablo." All those failed comparisons in the past, would help TL. The way people have scrutinized every "Diablo clone" over the years. I thought, when they actually found one, they would be jumping for joy.

But I failed to understand the example of my own behavor. I tossed this game aside in favor of a new game [dragon age]. For some reason, I expected other people to stick with it.

I tried to guess their behavior. This is something we see alot. I feel this way, but I predict "other people" will feel another way.

Can we put a stop to calling everything a "clone" of something else? When two similar games finally do come along. We have no terms to describe the situation. Because people have used clone, rip off, formula, blue print, ect... so often it does not seem to register with people.

Lets just describe games as they are. Rather than over stretch a bad comparison.

And can we please stop calling every other game a GTA clone?

[Mike Bracken]

Originally Posted by joetbd

People toss around the term Diablo Clone to the point where it has lost all meaning. See borderlands.

In Borderlands' case, I see your point. In general, I'm torn. It's easy to say "Diablo clone" when you're talking about a dungeon crawler with hack-and-slash gameplay and lots of loot-whoring. Pretty much everyone knows what you mean when you say it.

I'll agree that it's been somewhat abused, but I still think the greater problem is that the title has been applied to a lot of mediocre games.

I thought that would actually work in TL's favor. People would be like "finally... this game really is like diablo." All those failed comparisons in the past, would help TL. The way people have scrutinized every "Diablo clone" over the years. I thought, when they actually found one, they would be jumping for joy.

I think people would--if they took the time to play it. I haven't played it yet so I can't judge personally, but it sounds like one of the few games that would be genuinely worthy of the Diablo Clone title (the other being Titan Quest). I think the problem is that people have been burnt (I should make a list of all the "Just as Good As Diablo!" games I've been suckered into over the years) and figure "fuck it, I'll just wait for Diablo III.

Can we put a stop to calling everything a "clone" of something else? When two similar games finally do come along. We have no terms to describe the situation. Because people have used clone, rip off, formula, blue print, ect... so often it does not seem to register with people.

I think it still registers. Gamers are lazy and have short attention spans. If you can give them an idea of what a game is in ten words or less, most of them seem to love it. Take any longer than that and they're likely to have been distracted the sunlight reflecting off the shiny top of one of their empty Mountain Dew cans...

And can we please stop calling every other game a GTA clone?

Never happen. Every sandbox game for the rest of history will be compared to GTA.

[Tim Spaeth]

Hell, I just called Red Faction "GTA on Mars" on the last podcast. But it totally is that, so I'm not ashamed. Well, not totally, but nearly so.

[Tim Spaeth]

I hope people look at a calendar and realize Diablo III won't hit until 2011. Then I hope they look in their wallets and see a crisp $20, put it in their DVD drive, and download Torchlight. If the mod support for Torchlight lives up to expectations, it could very well hold people over for a good year.

[Mike Bracken]

Yeah, I hope people buy it too. I'm gonna give it a whirl tomorrow (hopefully review it eventually too--I'm slacking on reviews with my 360 out of commission), after the obligatory 3 goddamn hours of probability homework problems...

What's the probability of probability homework fucking up my Friday? 100%.

[joetbd]

Originally Posted by Tim Spaeth

I hope people look at a calendar and realize Diablo III won't hit until 2011.

I was going to bring that up. We are talking about Blizzard, this could take forever. People have been playing iso camera hack & slash games for years. But suddenly they are going to give that up, and patiently wait a year or two?

Knowing GTA4 was coming did not stop people from getting Saints Row. And having GTA4 out, did not stop people from buying SR2. I think SR 1&2 sold a combine 3 or 4 million units.

I believe Torchlight is getting passed over, largely because people dont know it exists. And those that do, see the $20 price tag as proof that the game is no good. A $15 Xbox arcade game is seen as a deal. While budget PC games are seen as crap.

PS - I think term "clone" does gaming a disservice. And it is usually a conversation killer. "oh, thats just a Diablo Clone"

Top down, 4 player, dungeon crawler... Gauntlet just managed to escape being a diablo clone, on the technicallity that it came out 12 years before.

Originally Posted by Mike Bracken

It's easy to say "Diablo clone"

Frankly its too easy. Comparing game elements is reasonable. But often its the lazy man's way out, to start throwing the term "clone" around (its sooo easy, almost everyone does it. I do it, Tim did it). But people take it too far, and ruin the notion of comparing similar games, by lumping just anything together.

Drakan was compared to Tomb Raider, just because it was a 3rd person adventure game with a female character. Never mind that everything else about the two games was different. Jaws Unleashed was nicknamed "grand theft shark" by many reviewers, in possibly the stupidest GTA comparison I have ever seen.

Anyway... Im pretty sure I got off point somewhere along the line.
I am sure talking a lot about GTA in a Torchlight thread.

[abfackeln]

I think the game looks pretty good.



I'll get it once I dual-boot my Mac Pro. That may not be until next year though.

[joetbd]

I would like to put it on my laptop. But im too afraid of the hard drive performance to bother.

Torchlight is very easy on graphics cards [there is even a netbooks option], but it is very sensitive to hard drive read times. Some people are complaining about 2+ minute load times, between levels.

The developers said there was a patch, they thought they would have out this week. But I have not heard about it being released.